Legislature(1997 - 1998)
03/25/1997 03:13 PM House HES
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HB 170 - PHYS/MENTALLY CHALLENGED/ SERVICE ANIMALS Number 0100 CHAIRMAN BUNDE announced the next item on the agenda was HB 170, "An Act relating to interference with the rights of physically and mentally challenged persons; and relating to service animals during their training period." Number 0153 TRACY ASHE, Legislative Intern to Representative Brice, said HB 170 is an act relating to interference of the rights of physically and mentally challenged persons in regards to training service animals. Although the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) allows service animals into public establishments, too often young service animals are turned away from these establishments due to the arbitrary nature of the existing law. The bill extends this law to include young animals in training. Service animals perform functions and tasks that people with a disability cannot perform for themselves. These young animals need the same exposure as trained service animals if they are expected to perform these tasks. Number 0242 REPRESENTATIVE BRIAN PORTER clarified that these dogs in training would be with trainers in these public places. Number 0260 MS. ASHE said normally the dogs are accompanied by 4-H children, kids or adults. Number 0269 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to a committee substitute. Number 0277 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER made a motion to adopt the committee substitute. Hearing no objections CSHB 170(HES) was before the committee. Number 0310 RAE A. BAGGEN testified next via teleconference from Sitka. She expressed concerns as she was not an agency person, but an individual training her own service dog and making sure her dog would be certified. Some of her questions were answered by Patti Baumgartner this afternoon. She wanted to make sure the committee knew that sometimes people with disabilities train their own service animals. Number 0365 CHAIRMAN BUNDE presented a scenario where someone went into a restaurant with a pit bull and said the dog was a service animal in training. He asked if there were any side-boards on this bill. Number 0387 MS. ASHE explained that normally the dogs used are labrador, golden retrievers and German shepards. Normally these animals will have a halter on them with a sweater-type garment, identifying them as a service animal in training. She was not familiar with people who were training their own dog or what breed of dog they had. Number 0445 CHAIRMAN BUNDE asked if there were any parameters. He asked if someone could say that they were training a service animal and fall under the provisions of this bill or would they have to contact someone first. Number 0468 MS. ASHE agreed to check on this. She referred to the bill, "`authorized' means employed by, or serving as a volunteer with, a school, agency, or other facility that trains service animals;" She thought that perhaps a person training their own service animal would fall under other facility. Number 0497 CHAIRMAN BUNDE said Ms. Baggen brought up an interesting question. Number 0514 REPRESENTATIVE AL VEZEY had difficulty with the concept of giving service dogs in training the same status as trained dogs. He especially questioned this fact when you are talking about a common carrier. If an animal is trained, they have gone past a certain standard, but if they're in training then they haven't reached that standard. MS. ASHE answered that the committee substitute work draft authorized the pre-training or training period for the puppies. This allows them to be out in the public in order to be trained to be a certified trained animal for a blind, deaf, hard of hearing or a mentally challenged person. Number 0578 CHAIRMAN BUNDE explained that, in order to achieve the status as trained, the dogs need some exposure to similar situations. MS. ASHE said this is the most valuable part of the training because this will either make or break the puppy. If the puppy goes through this part of the training with flying colors or there are fixable problems, the puppy will go to a school for the blind or a deaf school in order to be certified with the person that has the disability. The person and the puppy graduate from this school after learning the commands and the training. If the puppy fails, the animal is given back or absorbed into a family as a pet. Number 0651 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY clarified that this bill says we have a dog in training and we are expecting the public to provide the training facility. We're expecting the commercial interests involved; the stores, the common carriers, to provide free access to this animal. The bill does say that the owner is responsible for any damage that the dog does, but that only lasts until their insurance runs out and then those costs go to the proprietor. He has always understood that these animals were trained to a very high degree of competence before they were exposed to public areas. He said he shouldn't say public because the dogs couldn't tell the difference between training and the real world. He found it disconcerting that we're turning the public places into training grounds for dogs. Having spent a lot of years training dogs, a lot of things go wrong during training. Number 0745 MS. ASHE said the program that Alaska uses, the 4-H program, has their own insurance. The insurance is taken out when these dogs go home with families, who will provide additional training. She did not know the rates, but the program buys liability insurance to cover them if anything should happen. A lot of these puppies have muzzles on them. Number 0777 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER did not think this bill would apply to owners training their own dogs. He felt the only people who could bring service animals in training to public places would be people authorized in the bill. Authorized means employed by, serving as a volunteer with a school, agency or other facility that trains service animals. Number 0812 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY asked if "mentally challenged" was defined somewhere in statute. He said "disabled persons" was used before. Number 832 MS. ASHE explained that not all disabilities are visible. There are dogs that are working with people in wheelchairs. These people are then able to live on their own or with a roommate. Number 850 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY said he was reasonably sure that there was a definition of "disabled" in statute. He asked if there a definition for "physically or mentally challenged" in statute. Number 0864 MS. ASHE answered that she would find out. Number 0875 VELMA PAZAR was next to testify via teleconference from Sitka. She declined to testify at this time. Number 0887 ROGER HANSEN testified next via teleconference from Fairbanks. He said he has been training dogs for the last 28 years and hasn't had any problems, except in accessing some of the state buildings. Most places in Fairbanks seem to be receptive to the training as opposed to many of the problems he encountered down in southcentral Alaska, particularly on the Kenai Peninsula. They worked with the Fairbanks courthouse in order for them to be let into the building. He has trained about 25 to 30 of these dogs for the blind as well as other service animals. MR. HANSEN explained that he only had two problems in public which were slightly embarrassing, but there was no damage done. These animals can't be trained to work in public unless they are in public. You can't expect the dogs to be brought into the state fair, unless they have done something similar to it. He said the Palmer state fair and the ferry are the two worst places with which he has dealt. The ferry threatened to remove them at the next port if they spent a little bit of extra of time feeding and caring for the animals. These animals cost about $50,000 apiece, which is the value of the animal as an untrained puppy. There is another $15,000 to $20,000 put into them in training after they leave the breeder. These are valuable animals and to be left downstairs in the car deck is a questionable practice. MR. HANSEN said they continue to have problems training in the state buildings, particularly in Anchorage and a few times in Juneau. He and his wife have been denied lodging when they have been training the dogs. He has had the biggest problems with lodging when he has been in Alaska. Number 1058 CHAIRMAN BUNDE referred to comments about problems in southcentral Alaska. Number 1070 MR. HANSEN discussed shopping trips with the dogs. He clarified that the dogs wear the harness and sweater and are not taken out in public until they are ready to go, which is anywhere from about four to six months. The dogs are capable of doing just about anything out in public by that age. MR. HANSEN said he has had a lot of problems with restaurants. He has found some that would allow them in and he has continued to go to them. Most major stores do not have a problem with allowing these service dogs in training as it is written into their corporate policy. Number 1132 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER asked if they were rejected because they had an abundance of animals or if the animals were being trained one at a time. Number 1147 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY stated that there is a definition in CSHB 170(HES) for certified service animal. He referred to Section 2, and said those animals are not considered certified service animals, but animals in training. He appreciated the problems and stated that he had been a professional dog trainer. He felt an onerous burden was being put on the operators of facilities. There haven't been any assurances given to the degree of training this animal has and he was not quite sure that the entire public domain should be opened up to dog training. He asked if we were talking about making people let these dogs go in the passenger compartments of airplanes. Number 1209 MR. HANSEN answered that he has been on airplanes with these dogs many times, particularly Alaska Airlines. The only stipulation, a Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) regulation, is that they have to sit in a bulkhead seat. Number 1229 REPRESENTATIVE VEZEY commended him on the working relationship he has developed with Alaska Airlines. He was not sure that CSHB 170(HES) could replace good working relationships with statute. Number 1245 MR. HANSEN said it takes a little bit of time, but they can usually explain to a couple of supervisors and then they allow the dogs on flights. Alaska Airlines has been exceptional, they send eight dogs back and forth, from Alaska to the contiguous United States without a charge. These dogs have accompanied him in small float planes all the way to 747s and he has never had a problem. Number 1275 CHAIRMAN BUNDE verified that an untrained puppy, bred from the service dog field, is worth $50,000. MR. HANSEN said, in the 1940s, a high quality dog was about the price of a Cadillac and it is still just about that today. There are no finer dogs than these. Number 1301 SUZANNE PRICE testified next via teleconference from Fairbanks. Accompanying her was Tacona, a service animal in training. Tacona is one-year-old and has traveled to Los Angeles and Palm Springs. There really isn't any way to train a dog in the real world without being in the real world with them. A dog in a kennel will not learn how to deal with a bus station, how to get on a bus crowded with people. You can't train a dog how to go to the fair or the circus without taking him there. Some barriers have been overcome in Alaska. Normally there aren't any problems in the Lower 48. MS. PRICE said the biggest problems have been with state types of facilities; the ferries, the Palmer state fair. The guide dogs for the blind that they raise are trained, one at a time. Five dogs that were being brought up on the ferry were for three other puppy raisers and two adult dogs accompanied them. They don't take the dogs out in public until they have their basic discipline and obedience. The animals are not taken into public places until they are trained to behave themselves. The training portion of public places has to do with what the dog needs which is the sights, the sounds, the smells. If you wait until a dog is fully mature to do that, the dog will never be accustomed to those things. You need to do those things when the dogs are young. MS. PRICE stated that customers have never complained and most private industries don't have as much of a problem as the state facilities do. Customers are always very glad to see the dogs. There are probably ten or twelve dogs being raised for guide dogs in the state. Dogs learn valuable things. In the malls children will come up to the dogs and stomp on them, kick them. This happens quite frequently. The dogs have no reaction to this, they are trained and bred to be docile and yet energetic. Insurance is carried through the 4-H office. Number 1497 LINDA ATHONS, Coordinator, Alaska Guide Dogs Puppy Program, testified next via teleconference from Kenai. Her program is administered by Alaska Cooperative Extension. She commented that like not everyone can be a foster parent, not everyone can be a guide dog raiser. They carefully screen applicants. Puppies are placed in homes where people are caring, responsible and committed to the success of the puppy. There are ten to twelve puppies in the state being trained at one time; usually in Fairbanks, Anchorage, Mat-Su area, the Kenai Peninsula and Juneau. The procedure used to obtain access to an establishment is to telephone ahead, explain the guide dog puppy program and get permission to enter the business. This basic component of training is essential to the puppies because of the things Ms. Price mentioned. When the puppies are out in public, they wear a jacket which identifies them as a dog in training. Number 1578 MS. ATHONS is a guide dog trainer and mentioned that Dixie was with her and will be returning to the school in a few weeks. She thanked the local businesses in the Kenai and said that with their help she would be returning a well mannered and competent dog. Dixie is ready for her specialized training. She addressed problems with traveling throughout the state. She has been denied lodging in Anchorage, dining in Fairbanks and entry into the state fair at Palmer. She was granted lodging in Fairbanks but was asked to pay a $70 pet cleanup fee, which was not considered a deposit in order to stay there. Other problems have occurred when a change in business occurs. The new employee does not know about the rapport that has been built. Number 1651 CHAIRMAN BUNDE commented that a majority of times the trainer is able to take a service animal in training to public places and asked if we were looking at exception to this in CSHB 170(HES). Number 1659 MS. ATHONS said it is those times when it is not convenient to call ahead, such as times when you're traveling or the management of the business has changed. Number 1681 RUBY SCHMIDTBAUER, Alaska Guide Dogs Puppy Program, testified next via teleconference from Kenai. She was accompanied by Yukon who has traveled with her to Bethel and down in the Lower 48. These dogs are very well behaved, they need to be in the public. Number 1745 CHAIRMAN BUNDE stated that this is the first time CSHB 170(HES) has been heard and no action would be taken on it today. The bill would be heard next Tuesday. Number 1753 REPRESENTATIVE DYSON asked if this bill had any enemies. Number 1774 REPRESENTATIVE PORTER mentioned that in his role of training police dogs he never had any problems going into public places, probably because as officers they were in uniform and carrying guns.
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